Naruto Sharingan

I do not have the time, energy, or mental health to follow Naruto the way I used to and the way it deserves. Therefore, I no longer update this blog. Naruto goes on but I do not. Think of it as frozen in time, with theorizes and opinions very reasonable in April of 2006 but not necessarily afterwards. I appologize if this throws you and for not responding to any comments explaining how what I wrote here can't be true due to anything Kimimoto has divulged after Manga 300. Enjoy ...

Origionally posted by DJDoc:

Is perversion (whether hetero or homosexual) proportionate to one's power? Several cases in point: Jiraiya - Nuff said about his perversion and his abilities bringing him to legendary status as one of the Sannin. Ebisu - We're told that he's a special Jounin, instructor to the elite. Closet pervert. Kakashi - We know about his love for Icha Icha Paradise. His legend as the famous copy ninja and a former member of ANBU. Naruto - Don't know how he is post time-skip, but suffice it to say, with his Oiroke No Jutsu, he may be a perv in the making and a powerful ninja in the making. Sandaime - Wanted to join along Jiraiya to go peeking. Known as the "Professor" among the past Hokages.

I don't believe perversion is a prerequisite to power but it can't hurt. To be perverted properly takes some of the same skills and mindset required to be a powerful ninja.

A) Not caring what people think of you (or caring but not enough to stop the perverted behavior) .... If you have the ability to not let others expectations of you stop you, then these same expectations won't stop you from becoming a powerful ninja. Its like Ibiki's 10th question ... you have to be WILLING to take risks.

B) Being able to either dignify your perversion or keep it secret .... You either need to do like Jiraiya and turn your perversion into something big and accepted like writing dirty books or keep it so small like his spying technique. To be a powerful ninja you have to either be able to think outside the box to apply trickery so you either get away with your minimal skills or turn it into something like a Rasengan that is a killing move with little weakness. Powerful ninja and super perverts don't meddle in the middle ground.

C) Driven by emotion, pervert are easily aroused ..... and driven by that same easily tapped emotion, these powerful ninjas can more easily find the strength and reason to create and use new and more frightening techniques. They are aroused easily into battle too ... where they gain more experience and hone their competative nature. The emotionless and mellow fighters do everything with percison but don't have the emotional drive to become truely exceptional.

So in conclusion, just because someone is perverted doen't make them powerful, and just because someone is powerful, does not make them perverted. If you are confident, driven, sly and a bit anti-establishment ABOUT ANYTHING not just sex, you will have a better shot at becoming powerful.

Visually, Sasuke radiated evil upon his return. But behaviorally, I like that Sasuke really is just being himself. He snarky looking but it still seems like he just wants more skills, has no respect for Orochimaru, and says "humf" when Orochimaru mentions Konoha, which probably is still a sore point with him although he suppresses that.

Sasuke was 13 when he left Konoha and is 15-16 now. And Sasuke may have been highly influenced by the CS but SASUKE made the choice to leave and SASUKE gave into the temptation. If he was confident enough (i.e. had easily beat out Naruto on the rooftop or killed Naruto to get MS in the V.O.T.E. fight) and if Itachi didn't come after Naruto, I don't think Sasuke would have left. But the combination of feeling inadaquate at his current speed of growth and deciding he wouldn't do things Itachi's way, caused SASUKE to go to Orochimaru more than the Seal's brainwash ever did, IMHO.

Villian is such a black and white term. It doesn't have the wiggleroom necessary for someone whose relationship with the protagonist is that complex. Sasuke has no ill will towards Naruto (quite the opposite at least after the V.O.T.E. fight - we'll see now) or Konoha ... but yet is definitely allied with true villians. I don't believe he's a villian just by association.

It is also important to note that unlike Sasuke, most villians including the redeemable ones like Darth Vadar, do not garner immediate sympathy or understanding for their choice. There is often a sense that it is too late because of wrong choices made in the past for twisted reasons .... but in this case that isn't so ... Sasuke is redeemable but is still making those regretable choices in the present for a legitimate (although upsetting) reason.

The only "sin" Sasuke has actually performed, that we know of, is doing a Benedict Arnold - and traitorism is always contrversal. You have to look deeper into the fact that Sasuke knows and even expressed guilt about it being "too late" for him when he went to Orochimaru. His motives aren't evil ... they are twisted and upsetting ... but do the most harm to himself not others. And it is a ninja society where the difference between even killing and murder is a blurred line. The Konoha elite tend to look at things the same way you are, black and white - so that might be an issue. But I doubt - after all the effort Team Kakashi is doing towards his retreval and doing it very visibly and with the elite's full knowledge and Tsunade's full understanding - they would turn him away unless he did something specifically harmful to the village.

Indeed I agree that ethically Sasuke is in the wrong because I do fully believe that people are accountable for inaction against wrong doing. He shouldn't even be interacting with people who harm children by my standards. But Konoha doesn't hold by that. They have turned a blind eye to questionable behavior before (shinobi is a tool mentality, what happened to the White Fang, etc) and even may have participated in similar experimentation in the past. (bijuu, creation of sharingan) The do seem to have a lot of forbidden kinjutsus that at one point much have been created within the community and only later deemed too dangerous. I have a feeling as long as Sasuke appologizes for his deeds and willingly gives up Orochimaru's techniques he would (although under a lot of suspicion) be accepted back into the community ... eventually.

That said, I believe Sasuke is not coming back - he won't willingly until Itachi is dead because he sees Konoha as a place that can no longer be used to accomplish his goals, and afterwards I think he will be too guilty about all those "evil" deeds and apathy towards Orochimaru's activities to return ... which is where Naruto's unflairly devotion to sasuke might figure into the equation.
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Origionally posted by Wrath:

The problem with Sasuke is that, of the three main kids, he had the least to learn, and so the least to easily improve on. Sakura was a blank slate, so she could completely change herself, and Naruto had lots of weaknesses that he could train to remove, but Sasuke didn't have any real weaknesses to erase. So it was actually harder for him to improve than Sakura and Naruto, and qualitatively their growth will have been much greater.

Sasuke will be much faster and stronger, as he's always been a Taijutsu type above all else, and it's also the most basic form of training. But as it's his greatest strength, he has the least room to grow. He already had a Taijutsu style, unlike Naruto and Sakura, so he can't have improved it all that much more. He was already using the Sharingan's best Taijutsu abilities, so nowhere to really improve there. He'll probably be much faster and much stronger, and know new Taijutsus, but there isn't really anything else for him to learn.

He'll have lots of Ninjutsus - though not as many as some would say, since it's obvious now that Orochimaru hasn't been teaching him everything he knows. He'll have the snake stuff and he'll throw around various elemental jutsus, and there'll be comments about him knowing lots of different jutsus, but at the end of the day he'll probably fall back on his useless Katons once again. He'll have contracts with the snakes and possibly the gates.

Genjutsu will remain his worst area, and he probably will rarely if ever use Doujutsus, as that's Itachi's specialty. He'll be very good at defeating Genjutsus and seeing through them, because he has to be able to defend himself against Itachi.

His problem is probably going to be experience. Unlike Naruto and Sakura, Sasuke has yet to "graduate". While Naruto and Sakura have been off on missions and working in teams and so on, Sasuke wasn't even taken along to fight Sasori. You'd think he would be eager to test himself against an Akatsuki member, considering his goal is to kill Itachi, and at the very least he should have wanted to get information out of Sasori. Yet he was left behind to wait. Orochimaru may not put Sasuke in any danger at all, ever, since he wants to preserve him as a vessel. Naruto and Sakura have both fought Akatsuki members, yet Sasuke won't have even seen one since Itachi beat him.

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Sasuke hasn't used up any chakra yet, Sai barely has, and Naruto mentally really isn't prepared to face either properly yet. He needs Sakura and Yamato to be there solely so he doesnt get emotionally overwhelmed or tricked by that.

Here are where updates are to be found -

298:
* Yamato: Questioning a Major Motif
* small addition to 4-tail thread about memory loss
* small update to Sai thread about his possible suicide ...

299:
* Yamato: Questioning a Major Motif
* Kyuubitizing section
* Naruto's determination
* That Jutsu

300:
* Super Perverts are Super Powerful
* Surprise - It's Sasuke!
* Small update to Sai thread


I would also like to thank some returning readers. I got the first feedback today of a couple people who are really enjoying visiting ... I am so pleased this is working out so well. Please comment more so I know sooner! Argue with me! I was worried (not really upset but a tad bummed) nobody was listening ... Or you can always AIM me for a more spammy convos - I won't bite (too hard) - at Lexiefaye2.

Also wanted to let you know of a new blog I created (keep in mind I was a little high on caffine when I began this) to tell you some of my fun little life adventures. It is just starting but I think you will enjoy ... http://lexiefayestories.blogspot.com/

Lastly, as many of you know, I was recently modded on narutoforums. This new responsibility has been wonderful but will probably cut into my ability to quickly update this. I will still try to always add atleast something for each chapter but just keep in mind the updates might be slow and smaller than you are used to. Thanks for the understanding :)

Please be aware that the following discussion came out of various posts at Naruto Forums and therefore, you may have stumbled upon them before. There is also some repetition from other posts here ... I also am discussing VERY recent issues (so if you aren’t completely up to date you WILL be spoiled) and how they tie in to and actually enhance the Team 7 dynamic in Part 2 …

KON translation:

Sakura: Indeed, I understand the sooner (we chase) the better, but if Naruto's
in this condition...
Yamato: If that's the case, we'll leave Naruto here and go. He should have enough strength to return to the village by himself. {more stuff} Indeed, I am Kakashi's replacement, but I am different from him. Saying "I won’t let you guys be hurt"... I'm sorry, but don’t make me laugh. You guys are no longer beginner ninja who need to be protected and at any rate, you guys need to surpass Kakashi and become ninjas that can carry the village on their shoulders. Compassion and "being taken care of" are not the same. If we don’t pursue him now, we'll never get a 2nd chance to catch him. If we hesitated here, it'd be the end. There won’t be a 2nd chance to face Orochimaru.

Some people were quite alarmed by this speech and even more alarmed that Sakura would even consider an idea that seems at first glance to be completely contrary to the ideals of friendship and teamwork over a mission that Kishimoto has taught and propagated for so long.

I guess I am too much of an optimist to empathize with their dislike and worry about the changes. I really took this new view of Yamato's a totally different way. I love it and think Kishimoto is taking the amazing risk as a writer to make us question what we have assumed is the right way (and only way) of thinking for so long. . I like that he has readers reevaluate things and prevents older concepts going stale by making them more complex in the process of questioning them. I also like the new tone and new concepts - even if that means old ones are used less and less often - but I agree that I will be annoyed if Kishimoto even completely contradicts himself.

Firstly, this is likely just a test of the theme. Kishimoto could very well immediately prove how right Kakashi’s view is by having Yamato’s decision immediately backfire. Secondly, I don't see it as contradicting the basic Naruto theme of teamwork but more deepening and adding an amendment to that theme.

LEAVING NARUTO BEHIND

I recall yelling the word 'Stupid' out loud. There are many reasons why Yamato is making the wrong choice the least of which is Naruto's condition. There is Akatsuki, Sasuke, Grass Nins and a whole bunch of other threats to consider. But these threats are all speculations and just potential while Orochimaru is actually a proven threat in a weakened state and for once, obtainable. Yamato says Naruto can physically get back to Konoha on his own, and for what it’s worth, I believe Yamato honestly feels this is true. Naruto is not "crippled" and he is no longer in need of medical care (or Sakura would be administering it). He is exhausted and has overextended himself. He doesn't need help getting back but he is not in the state that he can help anymore. I don't believe Yamato would leave him if he was visually in harms way. Yamato is just taking more risks than Kakashi would but as we already heard from Ibiki during the Chunin exam - that is what being a Shinobi is all about ... determination, even at risk to your teammates.

Furthermore, Yamato shouldn't be separating the group for a variety of reasons including the fact that nothing like this has ever really stopped Naruto helping despite the odds in the past and the various other threats Naruto has, but Sakura is helping nobody this way when Yamato's way she is at least doing something other than worrying. Yamato is making the wrong choice for the right reasons. Sakura is making the right choice for the wrong reasons.

OVERPROTECTION

Even though we readers know it's a stupid move because trouble and Naruto attract each other, Yamato is making a good point. They need to stop overprotecting each other if they are to let each other grow strong enough to be the shinobi they have to be to face the villains they will be forced to face. I don't think taking care of a wounded comrade is overprotection. But I do feel Sakura rushing at a 4-tail Naruto was overprotection of Naruto by Sakura. I feel not telling Naruto the truth about him 4-tailing was overprotection by Jiraiya (?), Yamato & Sakura. I feel Naruto cutting a worried Sakura off during their first Jinichuuriki conversation was over protection of Sakura by Naruto. And I feel watching over Naruto when he is no longer really in physical danger is overprotection by Sakura of Naruto. Because he is NOT in need of more medical help, she can't do anything to help Naruto (she can't be successful as his bodyguard and he doesn't need a babysitter) so she shouldn't stick around when she is needed as an asset elsewhere. I agree overprotection usually is seen as "suffocating" but that isn't a prerequisite. Overprotection simply is why you are going beyond what protection is actually necessary and helpful.

SAKURA:

Yamato leaving DOES portent immediate doom, but Sakura leaving (or at least considering the idea) actually portents growth in the long run ... It is her first step in protecting Naruto from a far instead of inhibiting him by trying to protect him close up ... this macro managing technique is a way to actually be an asset - to "save Sasuke so [Naruto] won't have to" while not physically limiting Naruto's own participation in the process. I don’t think Sakura will actually rescue Sasuke without Naruto ... but I do think she will try or at least, do a lot more activity towards that goal from the periphery. She had an epiphany way back in Part 1 and immediately became Tsunade's apprentice. That was her turning point ... the moment she realized she wasn't keeping up her share of the teamwork and wanted to help Naruto and Sasuke. Recently she had her second epiphany and just now realized that she wants to save them both from themselves.

When we first meet Sakura, she has no confidence in herself so she tries to get confident by leeching off those around her. Of course she will crush on the most popular and strongest boy because of what it will mean if he likes and acknowledges her (even if it is a lost cause from the start) and because instead of gaining joy in her own accomplishment (which she struggles to do) she can easily gain joy in his more certain success. It's something she has to grow out of ... and hopefully she has by having her crush become something of a more authentic love (wanting to deserve and share with him and help Sasuke instead of just using him as a safety blanket) and gaining emotional well being through her own accomplishments.

Naruto is much more reliable to Sakura right now. In my opinion, Sakura truely and deeply loved Sasuke but she realized that had become an obstacle to her own growth ... and despite her heart is moving on. Yet, now that Naruto has a chance with Sakura, he has become altruistic about the Sakura/Sasuke relationship. And Sakura is not just looking for eye candy anymore ... she wants something more.

Sakura has no inner demon so she never needs to fear entering the darkness. (For more details of the inner demons of Sasuke and Naruto see Mizura’s NF thread: http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=85051 ) She can't do what Naruto can there - she can't mentally touch Sasuke in the way Naruto can. And Sakura needs to still realize this and understand that she CAN'T protect them from themselves because she will either be hurt in the process or inhibit their growth. What she needs to realize is that the best way to save Sasuke and Naruto is to motivate them both and do what she can from the outside. She can get them the information they need to accomplish their goals. She can be a distraction and a threat to the villains. And she can be the reason and purpose for both Naruto and Sasuke not to loose complete control over their sanity - she is the reason to reenter the light once the purpose is accomplished. By simply being strong for them and committed to them, she is helping them the best ways she can. SHE can turn herself into THEIR last line of defense against THEIR own demons ... by become something more than ONLY the last defense during fighting.

NARUTO:

Naruto hasn't been letting Sakura in since he returned nor is allowing her to express her worry over him. Just like how Sakura is no longer letting her feelings for Sasuke hinder her own development and has made him instead be a catalyst for her growth, Naruto won't let his feelings for Sakura (nor any feelings returned from her) hinder him from his personal conviction to save Sasuke but instead prefers just to use those feelings as a further motivation.

Naruto's personal goals and his ambitions have been put on hold ever since. Naruto's desire for constant attention (which he now even has in negative ways from Akatsuki!) and his need to be acknowledged (sated at first by his fellow genins and eventually even by Sasuke during the VOTE fight) were fulfilled and now his efforts and determination is aimed in a more altruistic way.He was not just HUMBLED; Naruto was emotionally CRUSHED. And he still hasn't really gotten over it so to survive, he has had to rebuild himself from the bottom up. He really isn't himself anymore ... just like how he forced himself to completely change his mindset and stop running away after the oath of pain ... Naruto again has completely changed his mindset to force himself to keep his oath to Sakura. This isn't to say his ultimate goal to be Hokage has disappeared because he is more interested in Sasuke ... just that Naruto now suppresses it with his other more instinctual desires - he's become stoic and hardened mentally in order to allow himself to follow Sasuke into the darkness.Naruto is only NOW able to joke about things like his strength because loosing Sasuke has put things into perspective. Naruto NOW realizes there are things much more serious and important than how the world generally views him. He doesn't feel the need to brag to prove his confidence anymore because in reality, he actually IS more confident in who he is and actually IS more determined about what he now needs to do. He no longer needs other's validation because the pursuit of Sasuke is purpose enough.

KAKASHI:

This reminded me of an earlier time when Iruka was the overprotective one and Kakashi was the one pushing Team 7 … unlike Kakashi, who remembers the “cute kids'” that they used to be, Yamato knows them only as they are now and wants them to live up to the expectations that come with being trained by two Sannin. ... Yamato feels that Kakashi is babying those two still (which he kind of does if you look at the Itachi fight) and that the best way for them to get strong is to force themselves to become assets at all times.

KAKASHI VS YAMATO … OR IS IT?

There has also been a lot of talk how Yamato might be an Anti-Kakashi … I find this too simplistic although I understand the appeal of such a view. It’s been Cat vs Dog, Copy 1000s of Jutsus vs Personal Secret Techniques … and now it looks like teamwork as the priority vs the mission coming first. The fact that both characters are grey yet in seemingly exact opposite ways (Yamato tries to utilize teamwork but the mission is his priority, Kakashi tries to accomplish his missions but teammates are his priority) helps to prove the point.

But, Yamato isn't an exact mirror image of Kakashi in this particular case. Yamato prefers using teamwork to best accomplish a mission - but it is not his last line of defense. He macro-manages ... depending on each Shinobi but only so far as they can actually help. He is the last line of defense. Kakashi on the other hand, is the first to fight each battle, trying to protect everyone while he can ... asking that his teammates stick together in the background to back him up. The teamwork is much more relied upon. He micro-manages much more. Yamato is not willing to protect them unless they desperately need to be protected. It has nothing to do with opposition to teamwork itself ... it has to do with learning to adapt to the current situation ....

At first I found it strange that he did try to improve teamwork so much ... He must have thought that was what was best for the mission at the time. He is representing Yondaime's idea that "You must be able to adapt to cope with the situation (240)" ... Yes, Yondaime wanted to return to base (which did not happen) when Kakashi was hurt but in that case the injury was deemed much more serious. Furthermore, it wasn't a one-time opportunity in the way this situation is ... meaning you don't leave your teammates defenseless but you must also do what is best for the current circumstances. Yamato might have made the wrong choice for what is ultimately best (because it's specifically Naruto being left) but it is positive that he can adapt and thus, even make a choice. And Kishimoto has shown this before ... the idea of leaving behind a comrade in danger if that is the best thing for the mission and for that comrade is something Shikamaru already did during the Rescue Sasuke Arc. I realize the major difference between leaving a vulnerable unwilling comrade after a fight and leaving a strong willing comrade to fight .... but my point is that doing the latter already contradicts Kakashi's unbending rule that you NEVER, under any circumstances, leave a comrade behind. One person can't fight as a team. There is no backup when you fight alone.

I don't see this new notion as a complete about face. Yamato isn't representing the Shonobi should work by themselves for themselves mentality Gaara used to have. He isn't representing Sai's view that you shouldn't utilize other team members in any way but as bait. He isn't representing Kakashi's original idea that you should even ignore comrades in serious need of help (the issue might be that he misjudges Naruto's condition - but that has no bearing on the young Kakashi's concept of leaving ANY comrade behind). Yamato isn't saying anything that is totally contrary to Naruto's way of the ninja ... he isn't dissing teamwork or asking Sakura to become nothing but a tool to the mission. He is just saying that if a teammate isn't in immediate danger and doesn't actually need protecting and babying then you shouldn't prioritize them over the mission. Leaving friends behind to fend for themselves IS DIFFERENT from leaving friends behind to fend off an enemy ... and Yamato sees this while Kakashi, because of his past, can't. Kakashi does not EVER bend his rule about protecting his teammate's over the mission while Yamato switches easily from mission to protection and back depending on the circumstances.

No denying that Naruto is vulnerable. But being vulnerable is different than being in danger. I believe ultimately friendship does still come first. There are other ways to serve that friendship than sticking together. Perhaps, the best way to serve friendship and teamwork is by doing your duty, and having faith in your friends to do theirs too ... even if that includes just getting themselves home safely. The best way to serve friendship is by doing everything involved in being the strongest Shinobi you can be. Wasn't separating to study with the Tsunade and Jiraiya for this purpose?

A KAKASHI/YAMATO/NARUTO/SAKURA TEAM

We just found out Yamato & Kakashi were on the same team once already .... Now we plainly see how different Yamato’s mentality is from the driving force that was Team 7. I personally prefer the idea of Yamato and Kakashi back on the same team now that I do see an inner conflict available. I already liked the strength of such a team (considering what they would face) and the one thing that disturbed me was a perceived overlap in personalities between Kakashi and Yamato. I was unhappy that such a team would have too perfect a dynamic and common vision that it would be uninteresting. Not anymore. This could be very promising dramatically with the two commanding officers (even if Yamato would likely be submissive to Kakashi) at odds over the best way to help Sakura and Naruto …
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NJT translation:

Yamato: The one that hurt Sakura was you Naruto ... Sakura didn't want to hurt you so she lied ... That Kyuubi strength that you have, if you did use that strength you might have a faster chance of saving Sasuke. But relying on the strength of the Kyuubi isn't your true strength. And so, if you rely on the Kyuubi, not only will you hurt yourself but it'll be strength that will hurt those close to you. You should be realizing that by now. The reason you didn't try to stop releasing that power is because you got impatient, right? From now on, I'm going to suppress your Kyuubi power completely. However if you think that will make you weaker then you are greatly mistaken. You are strong enough to not need to rely on that strength. You're true strength, isn't from Kyuubi's power, and the reason you're able to stand Kyuubi's chakra is because of the strength of your own chakra. If you want to save Sasuke do it with your own power. Not with Kyuubi's eyes, but your own.

I think this week just proved even more that Yamato has a just do it, act mature and helpful, don't overprotect but deal with the problem head on, attitude. He isn't willing to protect Naruto from the truth because he knows that can't help Naruto or make him stronger in the long run. Once again he is doing the seemingly opposite of what Naruto's former sensei, this time Jiraiya, would have wanted. It is only at first glance they are so different. Jiraiya wants Naruto to use his powers to the fullest he can and actually unsealed the red chakra. Yamato here is sealing it again and telling Naruto he's better of not using it.

But on closer inspection there is an overlap in purpose again. Jiraiya wants Naruto to have the Kyuubi as a trump card but has also propograted that Naruto NEEDS control and shouldn't use other powers flipantly. His training focuses on power not control because Naruto has so much spare chakra (chapter 91) and needs strong moves since Akatsuki is after him. Jiraiya thinks he whould be better off directing his power towards the bigger fish out there like Akatsuki not solely at Sasuke (hospital conversation) ... He has wanted Naruto to be stronger than the average ninja for his own protection but never wanted Naruto to push himself so hard that Naruto scraps his limits. Jiriaya even worries when Naruto pushes himself too hard like during the Rasengan training. He wants Naruto strong but within a healthy framework.

Yamato is just pointing out that with rushing and impatient behavior, Naruto hasn't been in control and has been relying on Kyuubi too much. And this is not healthy. Just like he felt that staying behind to protect comrade when it is unnecessary was overprotection not compassion, he is now saying that relying on demonic harmful powers where you could loose yourself and will hurt both yourself and friends is an unnecessary risk and over the top when the job can be gotten done with much less. And until Naruto can understand, accept, and control that, Yamato once again might be more correct and sealing the Kyuubi might be the best thing for this particular situation.

Site has been updated although not with much as this was a wrap up chapter. The only issue I avoided going into was Naruto's memory loss because I am waiting to see if there is more information next week.

PLEASE check out this thread by Mizura. It is absolutely incredible:
http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=85051

REAL NINJAS would check that out and this too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuWyZ9ps3f0

As loothed as I was to do so ... I really liked Kabuto chapter 296. Really liked him. It reminded me that what makes Kabuto great is not the abstract ideas of his potential power but that he's an open book. He thinks everything through and he is willing to do good things as long as they help or don't interfer with his mysterious plans. If he really wanted to, he could have hurt Sakura, wood restraint or not. But Kabuto didn't because he's not evil for the sake of evil ... he's with Orochimaru not because Orochimaru has power and is a psychopath ... but because they have the similar mentalities of experimentation and manipulation. Or at least thats what he says ....

I suspect that on top of the reasons he gives for helping Sakura, he feels obligated to help the person who killed his former master (although she really didn't because Sasori commited suicide, but Kabuto doesn't know that).

He practically blew his cover when he helped Hinata because no one would have expected an ANBU to have medical skills and by then the Jounin's already knew Kabuto had those specific skills. I think he helped Hinata because she wasn't in the way of his plans and he has a soft spot for Konoha genins - he will help them unless they get in his way or become a threat ... Kabuto thinks everything out ... he's sly and manipulative but he isn't vicious outside of the battlefield.

The other thing that comes to mind is that Kabuto is an experimentor and this was a precious opportunity to examine a Hyuuga body .....

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Originally posted by Neji48972:

Kabuto's somewhat unique set of skills has been useful to Oro many times: 1. his superb espionage skills of course 2. His tactical assessment of Konoha's (and probably Suna's) capabilities played a part in the invasion of Konoha. The somewhat lead the Oto and Suna shinobi in the invasion of Konoha. 3. he most probably had a part in the assasination of Yondaime KazeKage 4. he "acquired" Oro's current body 5. his medical skills and his adeptness with corpse-related jutsus have been useful in Oro's experiments 6. He actually saved Oro from Tsunade's trickery when she pretended to agree to the deal.

It took me a while to decide between the butt section and here ..... But it was too gay to go anywhere else. Origionally posted by Splintered:

Way to take the initiative Kabuto.

Gunste!n's fake chapter 297: http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/7634/enveloperevealed1fv.jpg


Choinkees's Fake Chapter 297:




Rouge's Brokeback Naruto:

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With NF down most of this week, I ended up chating on no less than 4 different forums. NF has been so funny ... I swear I've been more amused by it's trials and tribulations today than anything that would've been posted there. *hangs head in shame* When I first got on I could do Jump Post no Jutsu where my posts would disappear for a minute and then reappear 2-3 posts ahead of where they should have. I ended up quoting before the quotes were even said and even became the first post to a thread once. Then the second time it revived itself, I couldn't quick reply and when I went to reply the long way it sent me to a different thread. Finally now it seems to be behaving itself.

Here is a link to a 296 Parody. Not the best but there are some great moments (like what's on Yamato's hand instead of the "sit" kangi) :

http://s35.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0X5TT3WQJPO0U2WJTQIDJO4F04

I also realized that this blog was becoming too large for its own good so I added an Outline (http://narutosharinganmain.blogspot.com/) to the side panel.

The ANIME/MANGA matchup chart is finally up to date! YIPPAY!!! http://hometown.aol.com/lexiefaye/mangaanime1.html I summarized the entire story since the latest dub chapter for Zero-Kool on Sunday (the link to that summary: http://hometown.aol.com/lexiefaye/basicsummary.html) so I fell behind on the chart ... but with a little determination and free time I got it done. Be sure to check out the explaination of this chart first: http://hometown.aol.com/lexiefaye/mangaanimekey.html. There is also a link to it on the sidebar.
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Lastly, here are some thoughts about the future of the anime fillers. The latest filler period is due to end soon (somewhere between now- Episode 173 - and Episode 185) but there has been talk how to prevent another LONG filler period by sticking fillers in between all the Part 2 Manga Arcs.

In the particular case of fitting a filler between the Gaara Arc and Current Yamato Arc, the timeframe won't be the easiest thing to change. Unlike Bleach's '2 months' and this current arc's '2.5 years', there is no established timeskip between these two manga Arcs. The main problems they have to write around to fit a filler in between are:

A) Kakashi being unavailable to join the team for the bridge due to his frailty after using MS. This can only be extended so long without having to make up a different excuse for his absense or have MS used again in the filler.

B) Team Kakashi in their Gaara Arc form can't exist without Kakashi (who must be shown reacting long term to MS) and Team Yamato can't exist until the Bridge Arc for established story reasons having to do with disfunctionality and how characters are introduced. So unless they plan to have Naruto join with other teams for obscure mission a la the current Arc .... which will be weird without knowledge of the former genin's new abilities.

C) We also have a very compact timeline in Part 2 of 6 months to get Sasuke before both Akatsuki and Orochimaru follow through with their plans. There is a sense of urgency any obsure, pointless filler could easy destroy. Adding any LONG fillers would actually mess up the timeline itself.

That said, I DO expect them to at least stick fillers between a couple Part 2 arcs and I can only hope they do so tastefully with as least inconsistancy of plot and mood as possible.

In honor of the Olympics I present ...The Konoha Summer Olympics Team:

Naruto: Rowing (with all his Bunshins in unison)
Sasuke: Swimming (Katon builds up lungs)
Sakura: Boxing (has lots of punch practice)
Ino: Softball (don't know why just somehow works)
Shikamaru: Soccer/Football (stratergy would come to play)
Chouji: Wrestling or Shotput (large bodies prefered)
Hinata: Gymnastics (small underdeveloped body)
Kiba: Track (running with Akamaru for practice)
Shino: Fencing (good to stay covered up)
Lee: Taekwondo (should be obvious)
TenTen: Shooting (good aim)
Neji: Archery (good vision, has experience on the other end of it)

So I was inspired by Bravo's Project Runway. One week the challange was to create a Lingerie collection of three looks and I immediately thought of Team7. So next thing I know I drew my own three lingerie items insipred by Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke.

For a month my sketches have just been lying around my apartment and I thought about scanning them but then a better idea came to mind. So I instead altered some Virtual models found at the Glamour website with Microsoft Paint.

Voila. My own Naruto runway!

Itachi's ninjutsu on Naruto was able to extract deep rooted fears of peeling skin (the 4-tail experience of which Naruto probably doesn't even consciously remember) .... and his Tsukiyomi pawnage of Kakashi was not a matter of Kakashi's mental weakness but of Tsukiyomi's overpowering, completely emcompassing strength as a absolute offensive strike. Tsukiyomi will only not work against those who are fearless (either thru courage, naivity, or emotional depravity ... like Sai?), those who can avoid it all together (I think Sakura eventually might be able somehow to do this - I have no proof but the innate genjutsu abilities she hasn't used - it's just a whim) and those who can somehow mentally overpower the Tsukiyomi world (other MS users? Naruto if Kyuubi is accidentally happened upon when Naruto's inner self enters the Tsukiyomi plane?) .... Ibiki has the fortitude and experience to withstand the torture and pain of Tsukiyomi for awhile, he would maybe have an easier time while experiencing it, but that doesn't mean he would be able to escape that Tsukiyomi world and fight back.

The freaky thing is during all that time that passed in the Tsukiyomi world while Kakashi was being torture, mere seconds were passing in the real world. This is why Tsukiyomi is so debilitating ... it's the speed in which it occurs and the fact that it takes your mind to a different mental plane so you can't simultaneously fight the user with other jutsu while in that state.

Tsukiyomi vs. Tsukiyomi?

In concept this would be incredible but I'm afraid it will be a dud visually. Does anyone really want to see Starry Night and The Scream go at it in battle? How do you even show one vision overpowering another when nightmarish visions tend to ebb and change automatically? And then you would feel cheated because it wouldn't effect either opponent physically in the real world, so as grand as all the armagedon level destruction is within their minds, in the end it would be as if they barely fought at all.


If MS is gained by the death of a best friend (witnessed or not)(at your own hands or not) then Sasuke is out of luck because I suspect even with everything that has happened, Naruto is still deep down his closest friend.

If MS is gained by just extreme guilt over something (not the act that causes the guilt), loss of your ninja way and ideals, or something completely different, then Sasuke is still destined to get it ....
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Originally Posted by ouroborus:

The Mangekyou is considered an evolution of the standard Sharingan, but it seems to have little in common with the base abilities of the Sharingan. As it only adds a few doujutsu and so far has not shown any change to the standard abilities of the Sharingan.

The normal Sharingan gains a higher mastery over its abilities with each additional tomoe (comma) until the final three tomoe per eye. Each tomoe seems to increase the ability to copy and predict the movements of their user's opponent. In the Mangekyou form, those tomoe grow in size and their shape warps. Instead of merely being an indication that the user is using a higher form of the Sharingan that gives them access to new doujutsu, what if this new shape actually increases the abilities of the normal Sharingan?

With the pupils combining with the three tomoe in a much larger shape, it may not only allow more light to enter the eye, but more of the visual information that the Sharingan uses. This could increase the ability to copy and predict movements to a much greater level. Perhaps even predict the movements much faster than a normal Sharingan can, giving Itachi an edge over other Sharingan users who are also trying to predict his movement at the same time. But on a normal eye, the pupil contracts to keep too much light out. Perhaps on the Sharingan, by increasing the visual information to a degree that is unsustainable they are damaging the eye and causing the blindness that Itachi is believed to have. However, the greater abilities might explain how Itachi was able to kill every Uchiha member despite the fact that many of them had Sharingan of their own. The few doujutsu Mangekyou has are so draining that Itachi couldn't have used them on everyone, but the mere increase of the Sharingan's abilities may have given him an incredible advantage.

But what amazing additions they are! Tsukiyomi, Amaterasu, and Kakashi's Dimension blackhole (what I speculate is the third god technique Susanoo) are not to be triffled with. They are the most powerful techniques we've seen (only 4-tails new stuff and Orochimaru's immortality Jutsu can remotely compare so far) and as its been proven more and more, the more powerful the jutsu or transformation, the worse the side effects are. I am not surprised Itachi is loosing his eyesight.

I very much enjoyed (and agree) with this analysis of the tomes and what having a larger pupil space might mean. I think what you propose is most logical. When it comes to the Massacre, either he didn't use his Mankegyou Sharingan at all, or he only used it in the capasity provided in this theory.

It says a lot thet his MS was still new (Kakashi needed time to get better using his) and yet he had enough energy after the Massacre to Tsukiyomi Sasuke. Some people say this is evidence that Itachi didn't even perform the Massacre itself but was just covering. I say he wouldn't have used it if he didn't need to because Itachi was trying to prove something to the clan (I don't think he was happy to get MS nor of it's original purpose) about the limitations they placed upon him. He wants to "test" his capasity so he isn't going to start with his ultimate techniques.

Furthermore, he was their prodogy member already without it - amazing at kunai throwing (how everyone is shown to have died except the parents, who were stabbed by sword) and so quick with handseals that Kakashi can't even read them. He didn't really need his trump card to kill most of the clan and he still had the shock factor against the few (like his father) who were powerful enough to fight back.

I swear I haven't done it on purpose! They just keep happening .... Yes I am an Archaeologist and thus have a particular fondness for butts as I see them all day, but I promise that had no influence on the humor in the following images!

First I present you with the 4th OP, Go!!!!! (Fighting Dreamers) :


















JUST GO MY WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Secondly we have The Kabuto Butt Scalpel! :

Origionally posted by Dyroness:

Of course, Kabuto can pull butt scalpels after hugging chakra spheres. Damn, he's so badass 8D

Origionally posted by Odlam:

HA! Kabuto beat Sakura without even using his hands, while fighting Kyuubi Naruto at the same time! And you people mocked his uberness. Fear him. FEAR! TREMBLE!

And lastly, The Sasuke Butt Poke! :

I wanted to show that Sasuke and Naruto were indeed NOT holding hands on the Chapter 293 cover. The cover had a slight problem ... It almost looked like their sholders were crossing when actually Naruto was slightly behind. People didn't take into acount that they are angling away from eachother. If they were perfectly side by side, and their arms would actually cross but that wasn't the case. Naruto is slightly behind Sasuke with his shoulders back (the way his arms are actually behind his back) aiming slightly to the left. Sasuke has his shoulders forward with his arm in front of him aiming slightly to the right. That is why their arms do NOT actually cross and they aren't actually holding hands. The illusion comes from them both having their heads tilted toward eachother.

Well, anyway .... I tried to fix the problem with a visual. I drew it that bent by accident but I had too much difficulty trying to fix it so I said screw it, at least it makes my point that their hands wouldn't touch and that their shoulders don't actually cross. I did not notice the other *issues* with the drawing at the time ... but now I love it because of those *issues*

Origionally posted by Lexiefaye:

Hopefully this will illustrate once and for all that they are not holding hands and not just that I am a crappy artist! The blue line shows the part of Sasuke's arm you can't see cuz it's block by Naurto and his own body.

The ironic thing is I didn't see the humor of what I drew until people pointed (no pun intended) it out. But it is pretty funny. Guess I should be oblivious more often!

Here are the reactions to it:

Origionally posted by Kataimiko:

well see, now people are going to get confused and wonder who's mysterious blue hand is groping Sasuke's ass.

Origionally posted by TenshiOni:

No, that's obviously Naruto using his new regular chakra arm jutsu to poke Sasuke's ass.

Origionally posted by quonita:

I was cracking up when I saw your picture. Thanks for trying to prove that visually, but that might be too much for some ppl.

Origioanlly posted by Chatulio:

Lexie what have your done T_T

Origionally posted by Shimomizu:

u almost bursted my stomach

Origionally posted by gSOLO:

Oh man, I'm coming late to this thread but that pic had me cracking up for a good few minutes. No offense or anything.

Origionally posted by tu sense:

I think your rendition of Sasuke's left arm is angled a little to sharply. I don't think it would go that far in, but that's just a guess.

Origionally posted by dhJackBurton:

Any particular reason you are pointing to Sasuke's butt?

THE SHORT VERSION:
In front to a cocky Orochimaru, Naruto gains his 4th tail ... thus losing mental control. He does this by mentally entering Kyyubi's sealed cage after seeing an image of Sasuke there. In a 4th tail state, Naruto at first has a line of of his own blood float towards the heavens and then is covered in a layer of blood/fur (not sure what it was) once the transformation is complete. His transforming forces Orochimaru to fall to the ground and Sai to leap to a tree after his ink bird is destroyed. It also causes a wood clone made by Yamato to make a wooden shield. Yamato, after awakening Sakura, sent this clone ahead to Naruto via a wood bridge he creates. And unnoticed by anyone, Kabuto while healing himself, comments that this must be why people want the Jinchuuriki's power.

THE GOOD VERSION:
Pages 1-2:Chapter starts where we left off. An enraged 3-tailed Kyuubitize Naruto faces down an amused Orochimaru who just shed his wounded one-armed body revealing a new uninjured one. Orochimaru is alarmed when he notices that dreaded 4th tail appearing. As Naruto bellies over in pain, we transfer over to his mental state, which is filling up with boiling chakra/water. Mental Naruto is engulfed in this and he simultaneously calls out to an image of Sasuke to wait.

Pages 3-4:Alas, Mental Naruto instead floats toward the sealed gate which encloses Kyuubi. In a daze, Mental Naruto actually floats through the bars which safely separate him from the evil Bijuu spirit. Inside, a gleeful Kyuubi encloses (the tiny by comparision) Mental Naruto between his hand. CLAP! And outside, Kyuubi Naruto's eyes suddenly become nothing but a glowing disk.

Pages 5-6:Kyuubi Naruto's skin is pulling off, literally tearing automatically off his face and hands. The blood floats off his body, like oil in a boiling pot of water, burning and splattering as it reaches the edge of his chakra shield. Orochimaru, still removing himself from his old skin, looks down on Naruto (now with a stream of blood rising towards the sky) and comments that "This feeling is different than before." Across the way, on the opposite side of the destroyed bridge, Yamato retreves Sakura from his wooden holder. She awakes in pain but is alright.

Pages 7-8:Yamato notices the blood line rising from where Naruto is and has a bad feeling about it. He makes a wood clone of himself, which rips away from his body. It leaps onto a portion of the new wooden bridge supports that then snakes its way across the void to the other side of the bridge.

Pages 9-10:Sakura is now with it enough to notice the destroyed bridge which Yamato promptly explains was caused by Naruto. She worriedly asks where he is and Yamato explains he's on the other side of the void fighting Orochimaru. Behind and unnoticed by them, Kaburo chakra heals his stomach and while removing his broken glasses says "The power of a Jinchuuriki .... Its not for no reason that these guys want it". A slightly worried but unconcerned Sai flies above the scene of bleeding Naruto as Yamato's clone races there on his wooden transportation.

Pages 11-12:As Yamato's clone arrives on the otherside, Naruto screams out in pain. The blood line crashes back upon him and the energy of it explodes outward. Yamato's clone is alarmed.

Pages 13-14:Just in time, Yamato's clone makes a wooden shield for himself, which looks like the bow portion of a boat stuck in the dirt in front of him. Sai is hit much harder by the blast, and his ink bird blasts out in an ink spray from under him. he jumps onto a tree limb. Orochimaru ends up prostate on the ground. With his tongue stuck out he remarks "How interesting ... This child ... really ..." Yamato's clone is alarmed once again.

Pages 15-16:Before him is a 4-tail Kyuubitize Naruto, but this is nothing like the earlier Kyuubitized states. There is no visible bubbling chakra shield surrounding Naruto's fox-like body. Instead the blood and chakra has formed what appears to be a 4-tailed foxes body, fur and all. His face is just a blacked mask of shadows showing only a pupilless glowing eye and his sharp teeth. And as Naruto, or actually we should probably say Kyuubi now, growls out demonic laughter, Sai watches on from a tree and Yamato says "shit" because he knows he didn't make it in time.

Monday: Work on your own Naruto blog that you made cuz you're sick of trying to repeat missing posts from months ago! And Monday is the most blah Naruto day. Boring.

Tuesday: Bleach Anime ... then spend rest of the day checking for spoiler pics even though you know they won't appear yet.

Wednesday: Spoiler pics and Anime. Woot. Best day on the planet!!!! Discuss Discuss Discuss.

Thursday: Spoiler pic boredom sets in ... where's the raw already!?! Grrr.

Friday: Yeah Raw! But you realize you already figured everything important out from just the spoiler pics .... Oh well, at least you can have fun surfing the new threads.

Saturday: Day for deep analysis. All the easily thought up threads have been picked apart and now people are really thinking hard. Theorists unite!

Sunday: Full, sated ... and already feel the agony for the next chapter slowly creeping in. Only have a few last things to say but it can wait until Grey's Anatomy is over.

I know this chart isn't concrete .... but then again we don't exactly have a lot of concrete data to go on yet. It's nothing more than a theory. And I made thechart in order to show that the reason why I think 50/50 belongs at the 4-tail spot ... exactly where the mind switch occurs ... is because he has two phases with 0 tails - normal Naruto (everyday) and feral red chakra Naruto (think the Haku fight).

Only reason I used 'Shield' is because that is what I find is used to describe it most within these forums. I agree that the better terms are chakra shroud and chakra shell ...

I used the KN and NK to signify which has the greater content and control. KN is Kyuubitized Naruto because it is more Naruto mentally and physically but with Kyubbi features. NK is Narutotized Kyuubi because it is more Kyuubi mentally and physically but with Naruto features. I did this coming from an Archaeology background where you describe soil this way. For example SaCl would be Sandy Clay, or in other words, clay with a sand content. SiSa would be Silty Sand - sand with silt in it. There is also the term Loam (so you could even call soil SaClLo, Sandy Clay Loam but we won't go there!) which is a completely equal mix of sand, silt and clay ... and would be used to describe NK4 if he were made of soils.

Chart up to date as of Chapter 294 .....


Originally Posted by Momochi Gaara

mmmmm didnt think on that really but my question to u is if naruto is included without tails why doesnt kyuubi have a form beyond the 9 tails in your chart..

the 9 tails in your chart i would consider the last point of the seal.. annd put a physical type of kyuubi after the 9 point.. (i think lexie understands what i mean but for those who dont.. am not trying to say 10 tails.. but a 9 tail form after the 9 tail form) say 10 or even worse 10 10.. like your 0 0 phases.. but i think after the 9 tail point has been reached it would virtually impossible to get back to 0 state..

I did think about that and without any evidence either way (9 tail is Kyuubi vs two 9 tail states) I choice to go with option a. The reason I chose that option was because I was purposely trying to understand (for myself) why the mental switch (sealed gate crossing) would've happened when it did, during the transformation into a 4-tail state. But now that I think more about it I think there is also a longical explaination why there is only one 9 tail state.

We have to think of normal Naruto as part of the transformation into Kyuubi considering that even without the seal activated, Kyuubi is in there. But the other end of the spectrum is different. This is because Kyuubi is sealed withIN Naruto and not the other way around. I don't think there is any difference between Kyuubi 9-tails with a Jinchuuriki body inside verses a Kyuubi 9-tails normal.

It is due to either one of two things happening when 9-tail is reached:

A) Bijuus always have a Jinchuuriki within them. They perhaps can't have an earthly form without having a body as a way of grounding them. Shukaku in full form still had Gaara's body within him .... and I suspect it is the same if Kyuubi ever reaches his full form. Therefore, a 9-tail Kyuubi with Naruto's body IS the only 9-tail state ... and that would mean there is only one 9 tail state.

B) Bijuus escape from a Jinchuuriki in order to reach a REAL full form. I think (just speculation) the only way he can reach 9 tails is if the seal no longer exists (Bijuu completely released) and Kyuubi is no longer dependent on his Jinchuuriki body (and thus will no longer willing to protect it and Naruto's body will just be consumed within the beast) ... Bijuu are demon spirits and perhaps they can only have earthly forms when a body is sacrified. A body is sacrified when they are sealed within the Jinchuuriki (Yondaime, Gaara's mother) and so I don't think it is far fetched to think that a body must also be sacrifies for them to escape a Jinchuuriki ... and the body sacrified is the Jinchuuriki's. Therefore, a 9-tail Kyuubi without Naruto's body IS the only 9-tail state.

In summary, to go from a 9-tail state (with body) to another 9-tail state (Normal Kyuubi) would REQUIRE the escape from the Jinchuuriki body because Normal Kyuubi does not have Naruto in him unlike Normal Naruto who does have Kyuubi dormant in him! This is why it is unlikely there are two 9-tail states ... the escape from the Jinchuuriki body needs to be the last part of the process and that is very likely to be what allows for the 9-tail state in the first place.

We don't know if NK4 can speak or not ... I just think until Kyuubi does speak from NK4 we can't be certain he is as equally in control of NK4's mind as Naruto was in control of KN3's mind. If Kyuubi did speak out of NK4 it would imply Naruto = KN3 : Kyuubi = NK4. But for now it looks instead like Naruto = KN3: Kyuubi = NK5 and NK4 is something different, in between the two. And his techniques seem to be a mesh of their two styles. Chakra claw is the Kyuubitized Naruto Punch, Chakra body split is the Kyuubitized Kage Bunshin, and Chakra Spitball the Kyuubitized Rasengan. Not saying it is a Rasengan but that it is Kyuubitized Naruto's equivalent Jutsu.

Origionally posted by Wrath:

Just look at the eyes! They're completely blank. Those aren't Naruto's eyes, they aren't Kyuubi's eyes, and they aren't even Kyuubi Naruto's eyes. They're just blank.

I don't think he is ever "mindless" but he could be functioning totally in a daze because neither Naruto nor Kyuubi has the upper hand right now. Just like how Naruto gets less focused as he becomes more enraged and Kyuubi gets more focused when he becomes enraged, it makes sense that the least focused state would be the halfway mark. He's very animalistic right now ... also the halfway point between a human and a animalistic demon ... animals have minds and the ability to attack but they don't have reasoning power like a human or a demon would.

I'm treading lightly but I do feel a little validated by what Kabuto said. The big mystery for me is if 4-tail is that way because both Kyuubi & Naruto are in such a daze that he's practically mindless or if Kyuubi is slightly in control (like a dominant gene) but again so slightly that it's not Kyuubi yet. Naruto is in by book proven to be definitely not mental control anymore.

I think he does have a vague knowledge of what happens when he's 4-tailing but it is deeply buried in his subconscious. Enough about it is ingrained in the pits of his mind that Itachi's fear genjutsu showed Naruto's fear involved his skin peeling off (sound familar) when he turned into CS2 Sasuke ... But considering Inner Naruto was in a daze last we saw him and then sealed inside Kyuubi's hands, I have a feeling he won't really know what happened past Orochimaru's last taunt. Nothing indicates that his relationship with Jiraiya has seriously changed, which I assume would have happened had Naruto fully realized he once almost killed Jiraiya.

298 Update:

Naruto's memory is really strange after he wakes up. He has no recollection of not only the portion of the fight where he 4-tailed but it seems he forgot everything involving the time he Kyuubitized period. Strange, because I assumed that he has relatively strong mental control while KN1-3. A good explaination I heard involves a trama induced amnesia effect. This odd amnesia made me realize that other than Itachi's fear genjutsu ... which could probably utilize even the most buried fears and memories, we have no evidence that he recalls the Valley of the End fight beyond the point that Sasuke practically drowns him. Naruto knows he failed to stop Sasuke but I wonder how much he remembers about how close he was to succeeding.
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Naruto hasn't completely lost his mind yet in 3-tails ... he didn't hurt Sakura on purpose. He is just too unfocuses by rage while with 3-tails to notice anything but the target he's aiming for. The difference is that whan he reaches 4-tails he'll also see his friends as targets.

It's too simple to say that when he passes thru the locked gate it just means he's mentally switching to Kyuubi. He obviously is. But isn't that just shown by the rising waters - like a fog in Naruto's mind. It makes him drift away from the thought that are important to him - Sasuke's existance in his mind. The gate is something else. He passes through it in a trance and he floats through - which isn't the same as willingly walking there. Perhaps the waters are symbolic of Naruto losing his mind but the gate is symbolic of Naruto losing his body? I found it really interesting that Kyuubi take over not by Naruto just floating thru the cage but by Kyuubi trapping him in his hands. We must'nt forget that the gate is Yondaime's seal ... It's stange enough that Naruto would even be able to enter the seal at all ...

I also assumed he was floating away from his mind's image of Sasuke when he passes through the gate. That would mean that the mental fog caused by Kyuubi is pulling him away from the Naruto's mental motivations and important thoughts as he is pulled closer into Kyuubi's grasp.

He isn't truely 100% Kyuubi yet (until Kyuubi speaks out of Naruto instead of just the feral sounds, he isn't yet been 100% mentally transformed) but still a mix of the two .... and Naruto will still have some influence (although very little - he can always fight back) on the situation because he is still awake within Kyuubi's hands. But mental Naruto's crossing of the sealed gate symbolized something important - and that is the fact that now Kyuubi is more in control than Naruto. And as long as Naruto can't tell foe from friend and doesn't control the motivations behind Kyuubi's actions, for all intensive purposes it is as if Naruto wasn't even there anymore.

4-tails is "Out of control" ... Out of the control in the sense that Kyuubi will continue destroying everything until stopped .... You're right that this could be a good thing when friends aren't nearby (in DBZ it would be like the giant ape form if no one we cared about is around - uber pawnage with little risk) - it lets him be much stronger against extremely strong foes. But the fact is that once those foes are destroyed or forced into retreat (unlike Hollow Ichigo where Ichigo can force himself back to normal) Naruto will continue his carnage. The only folks who can and will be willing stop him are his friends who must get dangerously close to do so.

He is not nearly as berserk as people were expecting. I wasn't surprised. Even wild animals understand enough to go after the person attacking them first ... and it helps that Orochimaru is the closest target ....

Originally Posted by Clan cookbook:

Personally, given his previous interactions with the fox, asking him for power to protect his precious people, and the fox granting it, I think it was just that, except on the next level.To me, it seemed that when he told Sasuke to wait, he then immediately changed direction towards the fox as a guardian and friend, in a situation where no one else could protect him from the danger of facing off someone as powerful as Orochimaru. Indeed, I think that the fox was not so much as closing his hands around Naruto to gain control over him, rather than to shield him from what was going to be a mentally and physically intense battle.A few more points I'd like to make:-The databook itself says that Kyuubi and Naruto are on good terms. Why would Kyuubi have a malicous intent towards Naruto if that were true?

I would think the same thing except for the clearly malicious look that was on Kyuubi's face before he snapped his hands shut. They are on good terms as in, Naruto has made that deal with him ... and Naruto isn't mentally struggling with the demon within him (yet), but that doesn't mean Kyuubi won't take advantage of Naruto if that means he can get out and do some damage. Naruto didn't swim toward kyuubi in a frantic or desperate way. He didn't willingly walk through the bars with an "Okay. Help me Kyuubi!" He floated through on the current of the chakra/water while his mind was obviously in a dazed, totally drugged out state.

Kyuubi's only motivations are to stay alive, and destroy everything. He therefore, will do everything in his power to keep Naruto alive but when given the opportunity, will happily abuse his good standings with Naruto if that means he can use Naruto's body to do all that destruction. His attacks when Kyuubi takes over his mind will be aimless and uber-powerful ... like a nuclear plant exploding. That means it will hurt anyone who gets too near and will charge all moving targets but he won't specifically charge anyone in particular (except maybe preference for someone attacking him back) .... That also means if Sasuke appears, other than the potential situation that it will snap Naruto out of it, if Kyuubi is mentally in charge he will just be another thing to destroy, nothing special.

Also an interesting thing we saw here is that Naruto's kyuubi-seal is not weakening as Jiraya thought... The reason for Jiraya thinking that the seal is weakening was b/c Naruto took Kyuubi's mini-form, but now we saw that the one who enters the seal is Naruto himself and not Kyuubi who get's out of it.

If it was weakening we would've seen the gate melting or opening a crack ... but instead Naruto floated through it. So the weakness wasn't that of the seal, but a weakness of Naruto's resolve and mental strength not to pass through the gate. This is actually a more optomistic view because it means he can fight against the current heading toward Kyuubi's gate sometime in the future.

Originally Posted by bearzerger:

As I understood it the seal protects Naruto from the main part of Kyuubi's chakra. His own chakra works only as a stopping gag for that part of Kyuubi's chakra that can leak through the seal. And this part is growing ever larger as the seal weakens so Naruto's chakra has to grow stronger in turn to stop it. Jiraiya's training in part 1 taught Naruto how he can open that stopper for a bit so that Kyuubi's chakra can leak through in a way that he can control it. The mistake Yamato accuses Naruto of making is choosing Kyuubi as the easy way out. Naruto fears that his own strength might be lacking to safe Sasuke from the likes of Orochimaru so he turns to the unlimited power the Kyuubi promises. Meaning he lacks the confidence in his own strength when he is cornered.

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Physically, I really don't think he can Kage Bunshin while Kyuubitized ... remember how his bunshin burned and went puff when Naruto 2-tailed during the Gaara arc ....

In 4-tail that isn't fur but Naruto's blood filling up the chakra shell. Yuck! The chakra shell creates a fox shaped body that completely envelops Naruto's and this is what is filling and flowing over in blood. The claws and fur are just part of the more developed chakra shell and Naruto body is still inside it but unseen through all the blood and chakra. But now that Kyuubi is mentally in charge - it is his shape that has become visible. I think it's too uniquely something else to be just a mini Kyuubi(not a visible Naruto in his normal chakra shell but not just a vision of Kyuubi either) to be anything but Naruto's 4-tail form. I think the oddness of the chakra shell can be explained by the blood and chakra in and on it.I assume that continuously while in this state Naruto is rehealing and repeeling and therefore is loosing a lot of blood but is growing more blood at a really rapid pace ...

Origionally posted by MagiRed:

The entire fight the only think he has done is sit up or move his arms. The only time his body has moved was when he was punched by Orochimaru, and again when Kusanagi moved him. If you look at page 13 he knew something was coming, but he never tried to dodge. Even Yamato wonders how he can move. So what do you think?

I think NARUTO is unconscious and thus can't move his own body but KYUUBI can and is moving it for him .... Naruto is passed out (his mental capasity at least) inside the chakra shroud and the only thing moving his destroyed body is Kyuubi ... Whenever Naruto converts back to normal he'll be healed but be out, and still need a conciderable recovery time I'm guessing.

Origionally posted by Kyuubi Naruto:

Anyone can see that Yamato was surprised that Naruto's body could handle Kyuubi's chakra even if he is a Jinchuuriki and holder of Kyuubi. Yamato has seen what Naruto is capable of and even he is surprised at the amount of chakra Naruto can hold. Then his comment of "Naruto what are you" even proves it further.

Exactly my thoughts. This surprise or concern is noteworthy because Yamato probably knows quite a bit about Jinchuuriki considering his supposed powers. I think the quote shows that not all Jinchuuriki are as in tune with their Bijuu as Naruto is - that many can't quite reach and utilize the full potential of power provided by their Bijuu. Kyuubi has not only more power, but debilitating power, and a wicked mind that would typically do everything in Kyuubi's abilitios to undermine Naruto and try to escape/break the seal further. But Kyuubi is not doing this and Naruto is fairly stable in his 4th tail state. Something is surpressing Kyuubi's power over Naruto. Yamato assumes it's something in Naruto's makeup because with such a wicked mind it's unlikely Kyuubi is behind this stability ... but we readers know the relationship a little better ...and it still doesn't explain how Naruto can physically withstand it.

Gaara was the best for Shukaku as he didn't reject the Bijuu but think of the negative effect on Gaara mentally that hasn't been happening to Naruto. And now he physically is withstanding 3 more tails than that as well. Something about Naruto is different ...

A)It could simply be Yondaime's seal and that it seals in the worst effects. I am not sure how this works considering inner Naruto has actually passed through the gate. What could have happened was that Naruto is unconscious completely within his chakra shell due to the pain, blood loss and the gate passage. KYUUBI is the one moving his mindless body like a puppet from a place where the pain can't reach Kyuubi or Naruto, inside the seal.

B)It could be Naruto's pact made with Kyuubi which has put them on good terms so that Kyuubi is withholding some of the power and damage to allow Naruto to function and achieve his goals even with Kyuubi at the helm. This could have been why Kyuubi enclosed inner Naruto in his hands, to protect his body from the worst harm.

C) It could be something to do with Naruto's unknown heritage. A bloodlimit we don't quite know yet?My vote is for a nice little combination of a + b. Kyuubi is simultariously playing puppetmaster with Naruto's unconscious body while protecting Naruto from the greatest of harm ... and he's willing to fight to protect the Jinchuuriki body he calls home AND for Naruto's cause because of the pact.

This chakra/blood body apparently also burns to the touch. I do believe it is automatic, constant and not just a jutsu turned on by NK4. A punch is a much quicker contact than a grab. It like when you quickly run your hand through a flame - if you do it quick enough you'll be fine - but if you leave your hand on the flame for any long period you'll get burned. The chakra shell burns but it isn't MADE out of fire. Shukaku was MADE of sand and mixed sand, wind and chakra to do jutsus. NK4 is make out of blood and chakra (the two logical medium theories I've heard are Blood and Chakra) and mixes blood, fire and chakra so far to do jutsus.

increased tails = increased stability of form = increased chakra control = increased jutsu control = increased power

increased tails = decreased mental stability = decreased motivational control = decreased stratergy = increase in berserk behavior

So he will better be able to control his actions themselves but will be worse at controlling what he does with and why he does those actions. he'll be able to do some wicked stuff but who knows where it will be aimed. BUT all this is dependent upon a couple factors I don't fully agree with. The way I see it, this is the most berserk state because it is the one where neither Kyuubi nor Naruto is really in full mental control or capabilities ... they are BOTH in a kinda daze and I think from now on in truth with each tail Kyuubi will also become less out of it (in the opposite direction of Naruto loosing focus due to rage, Kyuubi will gain focus due to rage!) and therefore become less berserk. Thats when the real question will arise .... what are Kyuubi's motives?

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Originally Posted by Wrath:

The really interesting thing with the fact that his skin peeled off... is that we've seen it before.Remember Itachi's "deepest fears" Genjutsu? Naruto's skin peeled off there too, in just the same way. That made for a nice, very subtle hint to the future.

Maybe Naruto can't exactly remember being in a 4-tail state because he is mentally absentee when it happens ... but the experience is still somehow locked in his subconscious and his innate fears of the physically painful state he doesn't even remember experiencing showed themselves when Naruto's fears are extracted from him as that Genjutsu. This would be further evidence that Naruto isn't completely unconscious and out of the picture at 4-tails.

Gaara's power is to control sand. Kazekage Gaara has not shown any hand seals yet he did a shield of sand, sand claws, desert coffin and controlled sand waves with only a few arm movements.

I came to the conclusion that Naruto's ability is to control chakra. Not his enemy's chakra but his infinite stock of Kyuubi chakra. Why u ask? Kyuubi Naruto (which is his forum name and is really Naruto tapping into his power) has demonstrated the following abilities:

- Kaitengan (what he used to pawn Kabuto)

- Chakra extendable claws

- Chakra blast

- Chakra shield which is activated automatically when he goes into his kyuubi mode.

- Pumped up rasengan

I think that these two jinchurukis have come to a point where they don't need hands seal anymore to control their "element". I know that Gaara lost Shukaku but I use him to show that Naruto is almost at the same lvl of jinchuruki power as Gaara, even though Gaara could use his power way before Naruto

Would be a clear reason why Kyuubi is the most powerful Bijuu ... he needs nothing but his own unlimited chakra resources (see Dyro's Bijuu legends thread) to cause destruction. And it works well with Naruto's innate fighting character even when he isn't Kyuubitized. Unlike most ninjas that use the elements to make jutsus, Naruto has always just used his chakra. Instead of water/mud/sand (you got the idea) clones, Naruto Kage Bunshins, making clones out of nothing but distributed Chakra. Rasengan is also just a manipulation of chakra. So chakra control is Naruto's forte.

But Sakura is right ... Naruto is the best qualified to be able to control chakra, even the red chakra, but that doesn't mean he can completely succeed doing so, especially when this much chakra is being released. If red chakra could be taken as a pill for a one time energy burst and usage, I don't think Naruto in his normal state of mind could just suddenly decide to use it to make a shockwave and do it correctly.

When Sakura said this demon chakra can't be controlled I believe she meant by a normal ninja (like normal Naruto) using it for jutsus. She did not mean it can't be controlled and manipulated by Kyuubi himself. The ability to do these chakra jutsus is more an instinct Naruto gains from Kyuubi when he transforms. When he Kyuubitizes up through 3-tails, Naruto is mentally in control of where he aims the attacks and how he wishes to use the power, but I still think it's the Kyuubi inside him that creates the attack, and provides the raw power in whatever form is needed. It's Kyuubi's chakra and chakra control that Naruto's just borrowing for his own goals in exchange for rent. Therefore, it's really that Naruto is influenced strongly by Kyuubi when it comes to his own abilities but really Chakra control is the element behind all of KYUUBI's abilities.

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An internal weakness is very different than an external counterattack. They can't be treated the same - one is a temporary solution while the other is a true limitation of power. A counter attack can be destroyed, negotiated around, or beat somehow head on. The stickers can at some point (for example) fall off before Naruto fully transforms back. They can run out of stickers. The Necklace is dependent upon the presence of a single individual, Yamato, and we know humans are not invunerable. The harm that befalls Naruto when he tails is a completely different story. It is not something you can easily write the plot around. It is not something Naruto can just "deal with" - it is an issue much more inbedded in the process of Kyuubitizing itself and therefore, this is a true weakness and a true limitation on his power.

(Kimimoto knew he was dying and was totally loyal to Orochimaru already so why would he care if he was completely mentally overcome by the CS? The reason Sasuke had to be more careful is because he doesn't want to become a powerless to Orochimaru - he just wants to use Orochimaru for power but then be able to make his own decisions and leave to get his vengence. The stage 2 CS is less a physical, more a mental threat.)

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WTF did Jiraiya DO to get Naruto to revert back to normality?

What SPECIFICALLY could Jiraiya have done to cause Naruto to transform back (the stickers wouldn't have existed yet) if using any techniques to knock him out won't work (in the 4-tail state he's already unconscious), reasoning with him won't work, and I'm not sure he could've gotten close enough to seal it in a la 5-point seal? This isn't cuz I think the red chakra would burn him. Anyone who says the red chakra would burn if another shinobi were touched by it is making assumptions. All we know for sure is the effect it has on Naruto himself and having something like that emminating from your body is quite different than just touching it. I think he couldn't reach Naruto cuz at that point Naruto would be too fast and violent. So what did he do?

"Nearly killed" is ONLY used in a normal battle when there is nothing or only one thing left to save you ... if anything more exists then the ninja was never really in danger of actually dying. That is why Tsunade wasn't "nearly killed" by Orochimaru - as long as she had the regeneration technique (and was willing to use it), her life was never really in danger. Orochimaru's wasn't "nearly killed" by Sandaime's curse because as long as he had the means to access a new body, he was never really going to die from the technique. As long as something you have can overcome the threat, it's NOT actually a serious threat.

But you can't assume this is true for Jiraiya because neither event he brings up could be called a normal battle. You can't assume that if Jiraiya's life was ever in serious danger it's only because he no longer had ANYTHING to counter Tsunade's or Naruto's attack. The one exception to the "nearly killed" = "used up everything" is self-sacrifice. He wouldn't have wanted to really harm Tsunade or Naruto. Jiraiya wouldn't go easy on them but if it came a choice between his own life and theirs, Tsunade and Naruto are probably the only two people in existence he might value more than his own life.

Jiraiya's life could have been in danger these two times just because he was either A) willing to give up his life in exchange or B) limited because he wasn't willing to use that last trump to kill a friend. Yet I still assumed (perhaps wrongly) when I first read the chapter that Jiraiya stated he was only twice "nearly killed" to indicate the only two times he didn't have a back-up plan (i.e. another trump card to get him out of a dangerous situation) because he exausted them all.

At least in the case of 4-tail Naruto, as much as Jiraiya would not want to harm his pupil and as much as I believe he would never see Naruto (even in that form) as a monster, Jiraiya couldn't afford to sacrifice himself and let Kyuubitize Naruto get more out of hand. In other words ... at least this second time Jiraiya would have fought off the attack with ALL his abilities and somehow still was only saved by luck or his very last technique.

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As far as Naruto knows, all of his friends are in the forest a few miles away. If they were smart, they'd just go and hide until he and Oro finish tussling it out. He had no idea that they would follow him after he just unloaded a serious can of whoopass on the bridge and Oro... Hell, he could have been trying to incapacitate Sakura for the sole purpose of her not following him when he couldn't be absolutely sure of his control.

In Chapter 292, Naruto did not knock out Sakura on purpose. She was accidentally knocked out when Kabuto just happened to go flying in that direction. He did not notice her fall or anything but Orochimaru's taunts and Kabuto's attack since he 3-tailed. I agree it would be smart of his teammates to let Naruto destroy everything (including Orochimaru) and then afterwards, go in and do whatever it takes to bring Naruto back. But they can't afford to do so. Firstly, Sai will intervene due to whatever mission he has ... and Yamato will have to get him out of the path of destruction. If Sakura was there (people keep forgetting she is on the otherside of the bridge and it will take her some time to get to Naruto) she would try to intervene in a form of help for Naruto in the battle but as he wouldn't recognize her, Yamato would have to save her too. But mostly, the longer Naruto remains in this state, the more he injures himself. So Yamato knows he's on a timelimit and therefore, has to be the one to juggle between Naruto being strong enough long enough to survive an Orochimaru fight ... but also NOT let Naruto get so out of hand that helping him become too difficult and Naruto will lose too much of his life ...

Naruto wouldn't burn out. Kyuubi is described as having unlimited Chakra, Naruto is continuously healing himself, and Kyuubi just took control so Naruto's chakra levels and ability to control chakra are no longer an issue. I don't think he can even burn out .... It's more likely that Naruto's body will die over time from the amount of power than that the power will run out ...

I love Sakura (especially post timeskip) but this is beyond her abilities. She physically can't take him so then we must rely on her emotional impact on him. If anyone could reach Naruto in his current condition, Sakura's the gal (i think the only other person who could also do it is Sasuke and I don't see that happening yet) but I really doubt Sakura's emotions or common sense will reach a 4-tailed Naruto. The fact that Naruto didn't notice her fall last chapter helps prove that even in 3-tail state, his focus on his teammates was seriously dulled. Now he won't even recognize them. Sakura will be quite upset but she's become a lot more stoic since Sasuke left so she will more likely be useful through frantic healing of Naruto afterward. She will not frozen from shock and sadness.

Originally Posted by Hiiro:

Naruto: BAROO!!! RAWR RAWR!!! MEOW!

Sakura: Liek omg what the shizzle happened to my narizzle!?

Naruto: BEW BEW BEW ZAP RAWR!!! MOO!!!

Sakura: I...I will stop Naruto!

*sakura starts crying and runs up behind naruto and hugs him*

Naruto: ...meep? ...

*pause*......

*pause*...

*Naruto bites Sakuras head off*

Orochimaru: Sasuke bites head better...

I believe everyone is shocked and worried ... but it is more out of concern for Naruto's well being than of fear for the monster state itself. They don't think of him in the way Konoha's elders do. It's more like the way good friends might treat a friend with a serious drug addiction if they see them overdose. You don't think of the friend as a junkie ... you think of them as a friend with a serious problem you want to help them overcome. I think he has garnered too many friends who even this way would want to help Naruto and won't see him just as a monster ... but realize the guy who befriend them, taught them something, or showed them how to hope is hiding inside. Most of the village I don't think respected Naruto even after the chunin exam events ... and the ones that really did see beyond the villages shallowness are too close to him and understanding now for them to oustrsize him again, even if they are fearful. They will mainly react out of concern for Naruto's well being than out of fear.

Naruto's state of mind after this experience will very much hinge on how mentally aware he has been and will be of his actions while in a 3-tail and 4-tail Naruto state. He will feel guilty about loosing his temper either way but if he has any memories of what happens, He'll probably be much more depressed about it. It also is very dependant upon what he does to Orochimaru and his teammates ... If there are positive side effects he might even gloat or be annoyed when confrunted about his behavior ... but if he harms any one of his teammates, he will be miserable.

But that doesn't remotely mean he will want to seal it up. He KNOWS he needs to be able to tap into this power when confronted by Akatsuki and or Sasuke again .... Kyuubi is a huge risk to have but his goals are hopeless without it. If Naruto is really torn up about it, he more likely will just not wish to go on any missions where he might harm people. He might even run away (ironically similar to Sasuke!) to search for Sasuke on his own ... thinking he has enough power and training now to do so but he's too dangerous to take those he cares about with him.

I don't think it will be that big of an issue because he will be stopped before anything perminantly serious happens. Yamato won't leave Naruto vunerable like that if he can help it ... but if Naruto is about to hurt one of the other teammates, I don't think Yamato will have much of a choice but to act no matter what Orochimaru is up to at the time. I don't believe this will happen but it is a possibility.

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For analysis of Yamato's Bijuu control technique go to : http://narutosharingan.blogspot.com/2006/02/chapter-291-necklace-jutsu.html

Naruto defininately learned many new jutsus while with Jiraiya cuz otherwise he wouldn't be ready for the higher level of fighting present in part 2. And these are most likely Ninjutsu or Nin/taijutsu combos. Even by Meh's strandard of 3 months or so to master advanced techniques (and when comparing to other konoha shinobi who aren't geniuses, they take about as long before displaying new less uber techniques) that provides enough time for about 10 new techniques. If Naruto was a normal shinobi, he would utilize all his time away just toward new Jutsus. And mastery of these techniques would be tantamount.

But Naruto doesn't need that many because he has natural gift of Kyuubi. Kyuubi means he A. can fight damn well without mastery cuz he has so much chakra to spare and B. he has talents like the chakra claw that require no training. But this advantage has a twist - Naruto must sacrifice time he'd focus on new jutsu so he can instead learn to harness Kyuubi's power and control it. A lot of Jiraiya's training, I'm sure, was seeking out Kyuubi's power without being lost to it (which is probably why he can tail so quickly now - but also why Jiraiya knows he's not in control of it yet when multi-tailed) which left little time to acquire a plethora of new jutsus ...

My guess is he has about 7-8 new ones ... half of which he's mastered. These are 4-5 advancements of old jutsus, 2 completely new stuff, and 1 "that jutsu" which I won't even bother attempting to label lest the entire forum decides to guioteine me for loose assumptions.
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I really feel like "that jutsu" will be a true jutsu with hand signs and everything ... and we'll know 100% that it is "that jutsu" when it happens. If it was going 4-tail, Jiraiya would have warned Naruto about his temper not the jutsu in particular ... and Naruto wouldn't have been so guilty about it considering he isn't exactly in mental control when he 4-tails.

The key difference is that when Kakashi used his MS, he said "Mangekyou Sharingan" and thus made it clear what it was. Naruto has yet said "that jutsu" or anything to let us know this is it .... so it's not.

Furthermore, "that jutsu" involves a conscious choice to use it or not - hense Jiraiya's warning. We can tell by mental Naruto's out of it state and his floating in the current of the bubbling fog of his mind thru the sealed gate toward Kyuubi, that when he transitions to a 4-tail state, it is anything but a rational decision he chooses to make. If 4-tailing was "that jutsu" mental Naruto would've been like "Grrrr. I won't take this taunting from Sasuke's captor! I've got to do it!" and then he would have walked willingly thru the bars of the gate and willingly into Kyuubi's grasp so he could willingly 4-tail. Jiraiya's warning was specifically against "that jutsu" which if it was "that justu" would specifically indicate an ability to stop between 3 and 4 tails. All Yamato said was Naruto could make the choice not to Kyuubi at all ... he has said nothing about control while already within the Kyuubify process.

Did Jiriaya tell Naruto about 4-tailing?

If he KNEW he had the capability to do such stuff by 4-tailing I believe he would have made the connection immediately when he saw the bridge and the crater and realized he had forgotten a large chunk of time again. It's Kishimoto's style to use flashbacks in moments of ephiphony much more than moments of nostalgia. He does understand those two events and makes the connection but he ONLY first realizes it now that Yamato is confronting him. If Naruto already knew about 4-tailing and what he had done to Jiraiya ... this incident of hurting ANOTHER important person by simply not heeding Jiriaya's warning would have been a misstep inspiring GUILT. Naruto has a reaction of SHOCKED REALIZATION instead.

Naruto's reactions just don't match up with a knowledge of going 4-tail before ... Naruto's quick ability to understand Kyuubitizing has a backlash (which he already started to know in the VOTE fight which he likely does remember) and that he has a demon inside that will hurt people (he has witnessed gaara so the visual isnt foreign) again if he uses it ... and deciding without a fight that Yamato is being senible ... does not prove Jiraiya told him what happened the last time.

Look at it this way ... you fall asleep on the computer keyboard and accidentally send the porn you were enjoying to yur boss. Ooops. But you don't know. So when you show up at work the next day and see a picture of the porno taped to your desk you are quite confused. But the boss soon realizes from your confusion that you hadn't a clue so doesn't say anything hoping it slides. Well the following night it happens again but this time you send the porn to your mother. She tapes it to your bedroom door while yur at work. When you see it again you will be very confused ... but your Dad is the Yamato type so he pulls you aside to tell you you emailed it to yur mom ... do you think you wouldn't fgure out you had e-mailed it to your boss too and agree if your Dad suggested you lay off the porn for awhile?

Naruto was probably kinda out of it (like this time) after he 4-tailed. But he is also unnervingly over trusting. Naruto listens when it comes to what he sees as gurulike wisdom from Jiraiya. Yes Naruto and Jiraiya bicker and whatnot but when Jiraiya gets serious, Naruto takes it all in without question or reserve. Only exception was when Naruto refused to stop pursuing Sasuke, which is one reason why that scene was so important. The only way it's "that jutsu" is if Jiraiya lied that he had used a special Jutsu to cause the damage. But I find this unlikely - Jiraiya isn't the lying type - it is more likely a half truth ...

WTF did Jiraiya DO to get Naruto to 4-tail? Feel him up?

So far it's only happened when he was pissed (when he was upset a friend/ally died or the betrayal) and it hasn't happened in the past when Jiraiya insulted just Naruto's skills. Maybe he brought up Sasuke or something else delicate to Naruto. I agree that it does seem to sprout quicker than it did ... but it still seems to take a lot of emotional uphevel to reach the higher tail counts. You'd think being thrown off a cliff might do it - but no, that just helps him tap into the power while staying in control. So what could Jiraiya have said?

I don't think 4-tails is "that jutsu" although "that jutsu" might tap into so much red chakra that it acts as a catalyst for transition into a 4-tail state ...I don't think the purpose of "that jutsu" is to multi-tail ... just that multitailing in a negative side effect of the amount of chakra used up for "that jutsu" Otherwise "that jutsu" wouldn't be banned but it is BECAUSE Jiraiya saw what happens to Naruto when he uses it. Jiraiya didn't know "that jutsu" would have that effect on Naruto until Naruto was taught it, used it and went 4-tail as a side effect. Jiraiya couldn't know what would happen until it happened - and by then his life was in danger. Once he stopped Naruto, it can be assumed he would have promptly banned "that jutsu" and Naruto hasn't used it since."

That jutsu" is forbidden for SOME reason. I think even if it isn't due to a tailing effect on Naruto, It was probably used only once by Naruto and when all hell broke loose it was promptly banded by Jiraiya. So Jiraiya does NOT think Naruto will resort to it. Remember that its not like Tsunade or Jiraiya expected Orochimaru to show up along with "sasori's spy" and tempt Naruto to Kyuubitize at all. And they did send Yamato along whom it sounds like might be the only person not including Sannin who can somehow stop a Multitailed Kyuubi.

Origionally Quoted by Syntaxis:

Basically Jiraiya was saying: Don't go KN4 ok? If you feel annoyed don't go
KN4. Also, don't use KN4. That makes no sense.

Don't go KN4 ok? If you feel annoyed don't go KN4. Also, don't use that
leet jutsu. That makes more sense.

It is also possible that the "that jutsu" conversation can be broken into two separate prohibitions anyway 1- Don't loose yur temper and loose control and 2- Don't use that Jutsu. There is no indication the two prohibitions are related.

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Jutsu does technically just mean technique but in the Narutoverse the word is not thrown around so flipantly. Kishimoto could be tricking us by using the word jutsu for this but he's never done that with any terminology before. I like the idea but it just doesn't see very Kishimoto to me. He doesn't use twists on words ... he only uses words to conect to legends.