Tuesday, February 07, 2006
"That Jutsu" is a Great Unknown
Naruto defininately learned many new jutsus while with Jiraiya cuz otherwise he wouldn't be ready for the higher level of fighting present in part 2. And these are most likely Ninjutsu or Nin/taijutsu combos. Even by Meh's strandard of 3 months or so to master advanced techniques (and when comparing to other konoha shinobi who aren't geniuses, they take about as long before displaying new less uber techniques) that provides enough time for about 10 new techniques. If Naruto was a normal shinobi, he would utilize all his time away just toward new Jutsus. And mastery of these techniques would be tantamount.
But Naruto doesn't need that many because he has natural gift of Kyuubi. Kyuubi means he A. can fight damn well without mastery cuz he has so much chakra to spare and B. he has talents like the chakra claw that require no training. But this advantage has a twist - Naruto must sacrifice time he'd focus on new jutsu so he can instead learn to harness Kyuubi's power and control it. A lot of Jiraiya's training, I'm sure, was seeking out Kyuubi's power without being lost to it (which is probably why he can tail so quickly now - but also why Jiraiya knows he's not in control of it yet when multi-tailed) which left little time to acquire a plethora of new jutsus ...
My guess is he has about 7-8 new ones ... half of which he's mastered. These are 4-5 advancements of old jutsus, 2 completely new stuff, and 1 "that jutsu" which I won't even bother attempting to label lest the entire forum decides to guioteine me for loose assumptions.
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I really feel like "that jutsu" will be a true jutsu with hand signs and everything ... and we'll know 100% that it is "that jutsu" when it happens. If it was going 4-tail, Jiraiya would have warned Naruto about his temper not the jutsu in particular ... and Naruto wouldn't have been so guilty about it considering he isn't exactly in mental control when he 4-tails.
The key difference is that when Kakashi used his MS, he said "Mangekyou Sharingan" and thus made it clear what it was. Naruto has yet said "that jutsu" or anything to let us know this is it .... so it's not.
Furthermore, "that jutsu" involves a conscious choice to use it or not - hense Jiraiya's warning. We can tell by mental Naruto's out of it state and his floating in the current of the bubbling fog of his mind thru the sealed gate toward Kyuubi, that when he transitions to a 4-tail state, it is anything but a rational decision he chooses to make. If 4-tailing was "that jutsu" mental Naruto would've been like "Grrrr. I won't take this taunting from Sasuke's captor! I've got to do it!" and then he would have walked willingly thru the bars of the gate and willingly into Kyuubi's grasp so he could willingly 4-tail. Jiraiya's warning was specifically against "that jutsu" which if it was "that justu" would specifically indicate an ability to stop between 3 and 4 tails. All Yamato said was Naruto could make the choice not to Kyuubi at all ... he has said nothing about control while already within the Kyuubify process.
Did Jiriaya tell Naruto about 4-tailing?
If he KNEW he had the capability to do such stuff by 4-tailing I believe he would have made the connection immediately when he saw the bridge and the crater and realized he had forgotten a large chunk of time again. It's Kishimoto's style to use flashbacks in moments of ephiphony much more than moments of nostalgia. He does understand those two events and makes the connection but he ONLY first realizes it now that Yamato is confronting him. If Naruto already knew about 4-tailing and what he had done to Jiraiya ... this incident of hurting ANOTHER important person by simply not heeding Jiriaya's warning would have been a misstep inspiring GUILT. Naruto has a reaction of SHOCKED REALIZATION instead.
Naruto's reactions just don't match up with a knowledge of going 4-tail before ... Naruto's quick ability to understand Kyuubitizing has a backlash (which he already started to know in the VOTE fight which he likely does remember) and that he has a demon inside that will hurt people (he has witnessed gaara so the visual isnt foreign) again if he uses it ... and deciding without a fight that Yamato is being senible ... does not prove Jiraiya told him what happened the last time.
Look at it this way ... you fall asleep on the computer keyboard and accidentally send the porn you were enjoying to yur boss. Ooops. But you don't know. So when you show up at work the next day and see a picture of the porno taped to your desk you are quite confused. But the boss soon realizes from your confusion that you hadn't a clue so doesn't say anything hoping it slides. Well the following night it happens again but this time you send the porn to your mother. She tapes it to your bedroom door while yur at work. When you see it again you will be very confused ... but your Dad is the Yamato type so he pulls you aside to tell you you emailed it to yur mom ... do you think you wouldn't fgure out you had e-mailed it to your boss too and agree if your Dad suggested you lay off the porn for awhile?
Naruto was probably kinda out of it (like this time) after he 4-tailed. But he is also unnervingly over trusting. Naruto listens when it comes to what he sees as gurulike wisdom from Jiraiya. Yes Naruto and Jiraiya bicker and whatnot but when Jiraiya gets serious, Naruto takes it all in without question or reserve. Only exception was when Naruto refused to stop pursuing Sasuke, which is one reason why that scene was so important. The only way it's "that jutsu" is if Jiraiya lied that he had used a special Jutsu to cause the damage. But I find this unlikely - Jiraiya isn't the lying type - it is more likely a half truth ...
WTF did Jiraiya DO to get Naruto to 4-tail? Feel him up?
So far it's only happened when he was pissed (when he was upset a friend/ally died or the betrayal) and it hasn't happened in the past when Jiraiya insulted just Naruto's skills. Maybe he brought up Sasuke or something else delicate to Naruto. I agree that it does seem to sprout quicker than it did ... but it still seems to take a lot of emotional uphevel to reach the higher tail counts. You'd think being thrown off a cliff might do it - but no, that just helps him tap into the power while staying in control. So what could Jiraiya have said?
I don't think 4-tails is "that jutsu" although "that jutsu" might tap into so much red chakra that it acts as a catalyst for transition into a 4-tail state ...I don't think the purpose of "that jutsu" is to multi-tail ... just that multitailing in a negative side effect of the amount of chakra used up for "that jutsu" Otherwise "that jutsu" wouldn't be banned but it is BECAUSE Jiraiya saw what happens to Naruto when he uses it. Jiraiya didn't know "that jutsu" would have that effect on Naruto until Naruto was taught it, used it and went 4-tail as a side effect. Jiraiya couldn't know what would happen until it happened - and by then his life was in danger. Once he stopped Naruto, it can be assumed he would have promptly banned "that jutsu" and Naruto hasn't used it since."
That jutsu" is forbidden for SOME reason. I think even if it isn't due to a tailing effect on Naruto, It was probably used only once by Naruto and when all hell broke loose it was promptly banded by Jiraiya. So Jiraiya does NOT think Naruto will resort to it. Remember that its not like Tsunade or Jiraiya expected Orochimaru to show up along with "sasori's spy" and tempt Naruto to Kyuubitize at all. And they did send Yamato along whom it sounds like might be the only person not including Sannin who can somehow stop a Multitailed Kyuubi.
Origionally Quoted by Syntaxis:
It is also possible that the "that jutsu" conversation can be broken into two separate prohibitions anyway 1- Don't loose yur temper and loose control and 2- Don't use that Jutsu. There is no indication the two prohibitions are related.
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Jutsu does technically just mean technique but in the Narutoverse the word is not thrown around so flipantly. Kishimoto could be tricking us by using the word jutsu for this but he's never done that with any terminology before. I like the idea but it just doesn't see very Kishimoto to me. He doesn't use twists on words ... he only uses words to conect to legends.
But Naruto doesn't need that many because he has natural gift of Kyuubi. Kyuubi means he A. can fight damn well without mastery cuz he has so much chakra to spare and B. he has talents like the chakra claw that require no training. But this advantage has a twist - Naruto must sacrifice time he'd focus on new jutsu so he can instead learn to harness Kyuubi's power and control it. A lot of Jiraiya's training, I'm sure, was seeking out Kyuubi's power without being lost to it (which is probably why he can tail so quickly now - but also why Jiraiya knows he's not in control of it yet when multi-tailed) which left little time to acquire a plethora of new jutsus ...
My guess is he has about 7-8 new ones ... half of which he's mastered. These are 4-5 advancements of old jutsus, 2 completely new stuff, and 1 "that jutsu" which I won't even bother attempting to label lest the entire forum decides to guioteine me for loose assumptions.
_________________________________________________________________
I really feel like "that jutsu" will be a true jutsu with hand signs and everything ... and we'll know 100% that it is "that jutsu" when it happens. If it was going 4-tail, Jiraiya would have warned Naruto about his temper not the jutsu in particular ... and Naruto wouldn't have been so guilty about it considering he isn't exactly in mental control when he 4-tails.
The key difference is that when Kakashi used his MS, he said "Mangekyou Sharingan" and thus made it clear what it was. Naruto has yet said "that jutsu" or anything to let us know this is it .... so it's not.
Furthermore, "that jutsu" involves a conscious choice to use it or not - hense Jiraiya's warning. We can tell by mental Naruto's out of it state and his floating in the current of the bubbling fog of his mind thru the sealed gate toward Kyuubi, that when he transitions to a 4-tail state, it is anything but a rational decision he chooses to make. If 4-tailing was "that jutsu" mental Naruto would've been like "Grrrr. I won't take this taunting from Sasuke's captor! I've got to do it!" and then he would have walked willingly thru the bars of the gate and willingly into Kyuubi's grasp so he could willingly 4-tail. Jiraiya's warning was specifically against "that jutsu" which if it was "that justu" would specifically indicate an ability to stop between 3 and 4 tails. All Yamato said was Naruto could make the choice not to Kyuubi at all ... he has said nothing about control while already within the Kyuubify process.
Did Jiriaya tell Naruto about 4-tailing?
If he KNEW he had the capability to do such stuff by 4-tailing I believe he would have made the connection immediately when he saw the bridge and the crater and realized he had forgotten a large chunk of time again. It's Kishimoto's style to use flashbacks in moments of ephiphony much more than moments of nostalgia. He does understand those two events and makes the connection but he ONLY first realizes it now that Yamato is confronting him. If Naruto already knew about 4-tailing and what he had done to Jiraiya ... this incident of hurting ANOTHER important person by simply not heeding Jiriaya's warning would have been a misstep inspiring GUILT. Naruto has a reaction of SHOCKED REALIZATION instead.
Naruto's reactions just don't match up with a knowledge of going 4-tail before ... Naruto's quick ability to understand Kyuubitizing has a backlash (which he already started to know in the VOTE fight which he likely does remember) and that he has a demon inside that will hurt people (he has witnessed gaara so the visual isnt foreign) again if he uses it ... and deciding without a fight that Yamato is being senible ... does not prove Jiraiya told him what happened the last time.
Look at it this way ... you fall asleep on the computer keyboard and accidentally send the porn you were enjoying to yur boss. Ooops. But you don't know. So when you show up at work the next day and see a picture of the porno taped to your desk you are quite confused. But the boss soon realizes from your confusion that you hadn't a clue so doesn't say anything hoping it slides. Well the following night it happens again but this time you send the porn to your mother. She tapes it to your bedroom door while yur at work. When you see it again you will be very confused ... but your Dad is the Yamato type so he pulls you aside to tell you you emailed it to yur mom ... do you think you wouldn't fgure out you had e-mailed it to your boss too and agree if your Dad suggested you lay off the porn for awhile?
Naruto was probably kinda out of it (like this time) after he 4-tailed. But he is also unnervingly over trusting. Naruto listens when it comes to what he sees as gurulike wisdom from Jiraiya. Yes Naruto and Jiraiya bicker and whatnot but when Jiraiya gets serious, Naruto takes it all in without question or reserve. Only exception was when Naruto refused to stop pursuing Sasuke, which is one reason why that scene was so important. The only way it's "that jutsu" is if Jiraiya lied that he had used a special Jutsu to cause the damage. But I find this unlikely - Jiraiya isn't the lying type - it is more likely a half truth ...
WTF did Jiraiya DO to get Naruto to 4-tail? Feel him up?
So far it's only happened when he was pissed (when he was upset a friend/ally died or the betrayal) and it hasn't happened in the past when Jiraiya insulted just Naruto's skills. Maybe he brought up Sasuke or something else delicate to Naruto. I agree that it does seem to sprout quicker than it did ... but it still seems to take a lot of emotional uphevel to reach the higher tail counts. You'd think being thrown off a cliff might do it - but no, that just helps him tap into the power while staying in control. So what could Jiraiya have said?
I don't think 4-tails is "that jutsu" although "that jutsu" might tap into so much red chakra that it acts as a catalyst for transition into a 4-tail state ...I don't think the purpose of "that jutsu" is to multi-tail ... just that multitailing in a negative side effect of the amount of chakra used up for "that jutsu" Otherwise "that jutsu" wouldn't be banned but it is BECAUSE Jiraiya saw what happens to Naruto when he uses it. Jiraiya didn't know "that jutsu" would have that effect on Naruto until Naruto was taught it, used it and went 4-tail as a side effect. Jiraiya couldn't know what would happen until it happened - and by then his life was in danger. Once he stopped Naruto, it can be assumed he would have promptly banned "that jutsu" and Naruto hasn't used it since."
That jutsu" is forbidden for SOME reason. I think even if it isn't due to a tailing effect on Naruto, It was probably used only once by Naruto and when all hell broke loose it was promptly banded by Jiraiya. So Jiraiya does NOT think Naruto will resort to it. Remember that its not like Tsunade or Jiraiya expected Orochimaru to show up along with "sasori's spy" and tempt Naruto to Kyuubitize at all. And they did send Yamato along whom it sounds like might be the only person not including Sannin who can somehow stop a Multitailed Kyuubi.
Origionally Quoted by Syntaxis:
Basically Jiraiya was saying: Don't go KN4 ok? If you feel annoyed don't go
KN4. Also, don't use KN4. That makes no sense.
Don't go KN4 ok? If you feel annoyed don't go KN4. Also, don't use that
leet jutsu. That makes more sense.
It is also possible that the "that jutsu" conversation can be broken into two separate prohibitions anyway 1- Don't loose yur temper and loose control and 2- Don't use that Jutsu. There is no indication the two prohibitions are related.
__________________________________________________________________
Jutsu does technically just mean technique but in the Narutoverse the word is not thrown around so flipantly. Kishimoto could be tricking us by using the word jutsu for this but he's never done that with any terminology before. I like the idea but it just doesn't see very Kishimoto to me. He doesn't use twists on words ... he only uses words to conect to legends.
